QUEERTY: Jim Obergefell helped win marriage equality. Now he’s fighting for its survival.
- Chris Bull
- Dec 24, 2024
- 8 min read
The man whose name is synonymous with marriage equality is a board member of the LGBTQ+ organization Family Equality and co-founded Equality Vines, which donates profits to the cause of equality. He is also an executive producer at the JustMarried Project, which reinforces arguments for marriage equality through the storytelling of queer couples.
By now, his own story is well known. In 2011, Obergefell’s longtime partner, John Arthur, was diagnosed with ALS. In 2013, Obergefell and Arthur were legally married in Maryland. However, due to Ohio’s ban, Obergefell would not be listed as Arthur’s surviving spouse on his death certificate, so they filed suit demanding recognition of their marriage. A federal judge quickly ruled in their favor, and John died a married man in October 2013. Ohio won on appeal in 2014, but the U.S. Supreme Court eventually ruled in favor of marriage equality in Obergefell v. Hodges. The ruling occurred just days before New York City Pride on June 26, 2015.
We chatted with Obergefell via email from his home in Sandusky, Ohio, about attempts to kill marriage equality at the high court and in Congress, the political climate, and the JustMarried Project.
QUEERTY: Thanks for talking to Queerty Ever After, Jim! Where do you live these days, and what are you up to?
OBERGEFELL: I moved back to my hometown, Sandusky, Ohio, in 2021. I’ve been keeping busy with speaking engagements, my work as a board member for Family Equality, and my wine business, Equality Vines, which supports equality organizations.
I’m also an executive producer on the JustMarried Project. Outside of my activism and wine business, I’ve been singing with a local symphony chorus, indulging my love of the visual arts and theater, traveling, and spending time with family and friends.
What are you watching, reading, and listening to?
I recently discovered The Great Pottery Throwdown on Max (think The Great British Baking Show but with pottery.) I’ve also been watching shows like The Diplomat, English Teacher, Loot, Shrinking, and Unstable. And yes, given the time of year, I’ve been watching many holiday movies because no matter how predictable they might be, they bring me joy when I need as much joy as possible.
I’ve been listening to artists like George Michael, Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Andy Grammer, Ben Rector, Adele, ABBA, and Ed Sheeran.
I primarily read fiction, and I’ve been reading many gay novels—mysteries, thrillers, romances—I’m up for anything. I’m also re-reading books by one of my favorite fantasy authors, N.K. Jemisin. The most recent nonfiction book I read is American Teenager: How Trans Kids are Surviving Hate and Finding Joy in a Turbulent Era by Nico Lang. I highly recommend it.
With the Trump administration returning to the White House and its alignment with Project 2025—a plan aimed at dismantling LGBTQ+ rights—how concerned are you about the future of marriage equality, especially with a conservative Supreme Court willing to revisit Obergefell v. Hodges?
The current Supreme Court turned its back on the bedrock principle of precedent when a majority overturned Roe, a decision that had been in place for almost fifty years. They will have no qualms about rescinding our right to marry, which we have enjoyed for less than ten years. Justices Thomas and Alito have made it clear that they want to overturn Obergefell, so should a case make it in front of an anti-LGBTQ judge, that judge can now think “precedent no longer matters” and rule against marriage equality, setting up another trip to the Supreme Court. We would be foolish to think this Supreme Court would decide to affirm our right to marry.
If Obergefell were overturned, what would the practical and emotional impacts be on couples and their families across the country?
It would be emotionally devastating to queer couples and families. We would once again live in a country where couples could be denied the right to say “I do” to the person they love in the state they call home. Regardless of the Respect for Marriage Act, requiring all states to recognize all marriages, being forced to leave your home state to do something others do without thinking twice tells couples that they are less than others, that they don’t matter, that they don’t deserve the same rights as their neighbors.
From a practical standpoint, some couples who want to get married could be prevented because they can’t afford to go to another state. John and I were fortunate because our family and friends came together to cover the cost of the chartered medical jet, but we could afford it even if they hadn’t. What would another couple facing a terminal illness do in a similar situation? I would also expect legislators in states banning the issuance of marriage licenses to attempt everything possible to undermine or deny the rights, protections, responsibilities, and respect that come with a marriage license. Our relationships and our families would suffer in all areas of life.
Would already-married couples be grandfathered into existing law or be legally separated somehow?
I can’t answer that because I’m not a lawyer, and it would depend on a future Supreme Court ruling. I want to say the court would never invalidate existing marriages—imagine the chaos that would cause—but I do not trust this court majority. Given the animosity toward marriage equality expressed in the dissenting opinions on Obergefell and the more recent statements by Justices Thomas and Alito, it is clear that this court has no desire to treat same-sex relationships with any sort of care, concern, dignity, or respect. They turned their back on precedent by overturning Roe v. Wade, so why should we expect them to care about our relationships, marriages, or families?
Americans, even Republicans, support marriage equality, even though there has been some softening of support. What role do you believe personal stories and visibility play in preventing the backsliding? Can the JustMarried Project’s storytelling approach reach those who may not currently support marriage equality and change hearts and minds?
There’s no doubt that stories change hearts and minds, leading to changes in law and society. I’ll share an experience at the Supreme Court on the day of oral arguments to illustrate. The man sitting next to me in the courtroom was talking to another person when he explained that his twin brother, a Roman Catholic priest, told him that John’s and my story of love and loss made the brother rethink his opposition to marriage equality. The man sitting next to me later shook my hand, thanked me for doing the right thing, and told me that John’s and my story also helped him change his mind on marriage equality. He then told me that he is an Evangelical Republican. If our story helped an Evangelical Republican change his mind on marriage equality, our stories in the JustMarried Project can undoubtedly change more.
The Supreme Court is willing to revisit landmark cases like Roe v. Wade. If Obergefell is overturned, what would be your message to couples whose marriages might no longer be recognized in their home states?
If Obergefell is overturned, which is a real possibility, the Respect for Marriage Act, signed by President Biden in 2022, would require all states to recognize all marriages. Although that legislation does not require states to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, at least marriages would still be valid and recognized no matter where a couple lives.
Remember that the Respect for Marriage Act is simply a piece of legislation, like the Affordable Care Act, not an update to our Constitution. Because of that distinction between legislation and constitutional protections, I worry that the incoming Congress could repeal the Respect for Marriage Act, eliminating that protection for our marriages.
Looking at the lessons learned from Obergefell v. Hodges, how should we prepare to defend marriage equality again?
We must focus on state-level efforts to enshrine marriage rights in our state constitutions and repeal Defense of Marriage Acts that are still on the books. If you decide to marry or are married, be open about that with others (being mindful of your safety, of course). The more married same-sex couples are seen and known in our communities, the more we break down those harmful preconceived notions about our relationships and families.
We are already part of everyday life, but there’s power in ensuring others know we are part of their everyday life.Why share stories now?
Younger generations, especially our trans family, are bearing the brunt of much of the hate directed toward the queer community. Think about what young queer kids in high school and college are facing: don’t say gay laws, forced outings, anti-trans sports, and bathroom laws, bans on life-saving gender-affirming care, and more.
And yet more young people are living openly than ever before. We can learn greatly from their willingness to be themselves and, more importantly, defend and support others. Younger generations have no patience for those who focus on minor differences instead of embracing what we all share – our humanity and desire to be ourselves.
The JustMarried Project gives our community heroes to remember and look up to. It’s also important because it helps younger generations understand and appreciate what life was like for our community in the past. Context and history are vital to understanding what we enjoy today, and the stories in this project provide that.
How do the book, podcast, and docuseries help create visibility, inspire action, and counter the erasure of our stories?
For far too long, LGBTQ+ history has been erased or twisted by society, and we have been prevented from knowing our heroes, the people who risked everything to create a better world for those who follow. Through a book, podcast series, and documentary series, the JustMarried Project uses storytelling to preserve our history and inspire others. Marriage equality is at risk, and JustMarried reminds people of the sacrifices and effort it took for marriage to become a reality and the joy, meaning, rights, and belonging we stand to lose if marriage equality is overturned.
We have enjoyed marriage equality for less than ten years, and the JustMarried Project is important in reminding our nation of what it took to reach that milestone and what we might lose through complacency or inaction. This project also has the power to change hearts and minds, bringing more allies to the side of love, but these empowering stories must be accessible.
Our goal is to get free copies of our book, LOVE: The Heroic Stories of Marriage Equality, out to as many public libraries and queer community centers as possible.
What keeps you motivated in these mounting challenges, and what would you say to others who might feel disheartened?
I’ve been finding it difficult to be hopeful and hear the same from others. Remember that you’re not alone. Our community has been through hopeless times before, and we’ve persevered. We’ve embraced the beauty and diversity of our chosen family, finding hope and motivation to keep fighting to create a better future for others. Even with this incoming administration and the fear I feel, I can still say the world is a better place for me as an out gay man than it was when I came out in 1992.
Whenever I feel disheartened, I think of a young woman at the University of Tennessee who told me that Obergefell v. Hodges saved her life. She could finally envision a future for herself.. She told me she chose not to commit suicide because of marriage equality.
Although there’s a definite bittersweet quality to that now, given the incoming administration and the hate directed toward the queer community, it reminds me that every step forward we take as a community, every bit of effort queer people have put forth to create change, is worth it.
Comments